Curse

Amorfati87 · May 16, 2007, 11:58 AM // 11:58

As many people have already stated, Ecto is a rare material, it is not, nor was it ever intended to be used as currency. If you kept a ton of ecto around without ever realizing the price could change dramatically you kinda deserve to lose your money.

There are plenty of other things you could have invested in that wouldn't cause you to lose money (ie. things like lockpicks). But no, you didn't. And, yes it would be a lot more work for you to invest in something other than ectos but hey nobody ever said life was easy.

You chose not to invest safely and securely. You, and only you, risked your money when you didn't immediately sell the ectos as soon as you received them.

Anet has restrictions on the amount of money you can hold on characters, on accounts and for trading purposes. This was no accident. They have done this on purpose because it is how they want their game to be. No harm in asking them to change it, but don't be surprised when they don't.

And finally, want to know why the price is dropping? Obviously people have sold tremendous amounts of ectos back to merchants lately. Don't blame Anet for prices dropping, blame your fellow fat cats for making the bottom drop out of the market. And further blame them for not keeping you in the loop about the sell off.

vdz · May 16, 2007, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amorfati87

As many people have already stated, Ecto is a rare material, it is not, nor was it ever intended to be used as currency. If you kept a ton of ecto around without ever realizing the price could change dramatically you kinda deserve to lose your money.

Oh is it not? Then tell why does the RARE material trader sells them and not the material trader? I bet you never farmed uw, 2% change it drops from Aatxe and Smites so yes it is RARE and not COMMEN. Its not Bolth of Cloth. And what do you define as RARE? Since the start of GW it has been used as a currency and denying that would be silly. Saying things like HUH HUH you shouldnt have used it as a currency is just dumb. When ppl ask 100k+ecto for almost everything in the high end area. Should i say to them, urm i have bolth of cloth instead, you accept that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amorfati87

There are plenty of other things you could have invested in that wouldn't cause you to lose money (ie. things like lockpicks). But no, you didn't. And, yes it would be a lot more work for you to invest in something other than ectos but hey nobody ever said life was easy.

You started playing GW short after HM?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amorfati87

You chose not to invest safely and securely. You, and only you, risked your money when you didn't immediately sell the ectos as soon as you received them.

Urm investing is never save. Investing means taking risk but i guess you already knew that...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amorfati87

Anet has restrictions on the amount of money you can hold on characters, on accounts and for trading purposes. This was no accident. They have done this on purpose because it is how they want their game to be. No harm in asking them to change it, but don't be surprised when they don't.

And finally, want to know why the price is dropping? Obviously people have sold tremendous amounts of ectos back to merchants lately. Don't blame Anet for prices dropping, blame your fellow fat cats for making the bottom drop out of the market. And further blame them for not keeping you in the loop about the sell off.

with people you aim on those who have more gold than you? Cant stand it?
The only ppl who made ecto drop are BOT farmers since they invested in ecto to and not yankee 3 who has 2 stacks. GG

Amorfati87 · May 16, 2007, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdz

Oh is it not? Then tell why does the RARE material trader sells them and not the material trader? I bet you never farmed uw, 2% change it drops from Aatxe and Smites so yes it is RARE and not COMMEN. Its not Bolth of Cloth. And what do you define as RARE? Since the start of GW it has been used as a currency and denying that would be silly. Saying things like HUH HUH you shouldnt have used it as a currency is just dumb. When ppl ask 100k+ecto for almost everything in the high end area. Should i say to them, urm i have bolth of cloth instead, you accept that?

Hence why I called it RARE material. Just because people have used it as currency since the beginning of time doesn't make it currency.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdz

You started playing GW short after HM?

Does it really matter when I started? But for the sake of argument, I've been playing the game about 1 year and 10 months. I used "something like lockpicks" because that is something that is already being discussed. You could just as easlily have used a Vial of Ink or Clay Bricks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdz

Urm investing is never save. Investing means taking risk but i guess you already knew that...

Yes but there are certainly more "safe" ways to invest. Ecto has always fluctuated in price which IMO makes it a bad investment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdz

with people you aim on those who have more gold than you? Cant stand it?
The only ppl who made ecto drop are BOT farmers since they invested in ecto to and not yankee 3 who has 2 stacks. GG

I really have no idea what you are saying here. Tip: Type a little slower, read back what you type before posting.

Is how much gold I have really important? I think you are trying to say BOT farmers sold off their ecto which made the price drop. I would hazard a guess that the BOT farmers aren't around long enough to store a ton of stuff. Would probably be bad for business if you had a character full on gold AND ectos and for it to be banned. So I'm thinking BOT farmers probably deal strictly in gold, but I'm not a BOT farmer so I really have no clue how it works.

Also if BOT farmers are ruining the price of ectos that just shows how truly dangerous they are, and they should be stopped. Which, btw, ANET is doing.

AxeMe · May 16, 2007, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amorfati87

Yes but there are certainly more "safe" ways to invest. Ecto has always fluctuated in price which IMO makes it a bad investment.

You have it backwards - the fact that it fluctuates in price actually makes it an investment. The whole notion of the stock market, for instance, is based on price fluctuations. Things that do not fluctuate in price are horrible investments since there is no movement in price - so no chance of gain. And that's what makes something an investment.

vdz · May 16, 2007, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amorfati87

Hence why I called it RARE material. Just because people have used it as currency since the beginning of time doesn't make it currency.

It is used as a currency and its still being used as a currency and it will always be used as a currency. Again, denying this is plain stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amorfati87

Does it really matter when I started? But for the sake of argument, I've been playing the game about 1 year and 10 months. I used "something like lockpicks" because that is something that is already being discussed. You could just as easlily have used a Vial of Ink or Clay Bricks.

No it does, but saying i should have invested in lockpicks which are only in GW for a few weeks is a bit lame. Investing in Vial of Ink is IMO the worst id.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amorfati87

Yes but there are certainly more "safe" ways to invest. Ecto has always fluctuated in price which IMO makes it a bad investment.

So when materials fluctuates its a bad investment? I dont think so. You buy them when they are low and sell them when they are up again.... And when they go down you just wait untill they go up again.. But this time it went down duo to another reason then just "economic" trends and im afraid it will never go up again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amorfati87

I really have no idea what you are saying here. Tip: Type a little slower, read back what you type before posting.

Is how much gold I have really important? I think you are trying to say BOT farmers sold off their ecto which made the price drop. I would hazard a guess that the BOT farmers aren't around long enough to store a ton of stuff. Would probably be bad for business if you had a character full on gold AND ectos and for it to be banned. So I'm thinking BOT farmers probably deal strictly in gold, but I'm not a BOT farmer so I really have no clue how it works.

Also if BOT farmers are ruining the price of ectos that just shows how truly dangerous they are, and they should be stopped. Which, btw, ANET is doing.

Well since the feedback you gave me in this last part i think you did understand it after all. Maybe you should read more carefully.
Yes i was saying that BOT farmers sold a shitload of their ecto after the loot scale nerve. Is it that hard to imagine they invested in ecto when they only have a max amount of 1000k in their storage just like us? Even if they have multiple accounts.....

Stealthc · May 16, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdz

So when materials fluctuates its a bad investment? I dont think so. You buy them when they are low and sell them when they are up again.... And when they go down you just wait untill they go up again.. But this time it went down duo to another reason then just "economic" trends and im afraid it will never go up again.

So wait for them to go up again, if they don't go up again, well you made a bad investment then didn't you.

This thread should be closed as it is nothing more than a whiny rant because someone is no longer 200k richer.

Amorfati87 · May 16, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42

No chance of gain for sure. But there is also no chance for loss.

This is in direct response to people complaining about losing money because the price of ectos went down. Nobody wants to take responsibility for the risk that they took willingly.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That is the nature of investing. So please don't cry every time you lose money.

There's no crying in baseball!

Jetdoc · May 16, 2007, 01:43 PM // 13:43

I am in the camp that lower ecto prices is a good thing.

I personally am loving the drop, as my upcoming FoW pants/boots just got a whole helluva lot cheaper for my ranger.

GW has never been about investments. If you have excess cash, simply go out and buy something you like. If you can't find anything that you like...why do you have the cash in the first place?

vdz · May 16, 2007, 01:45 PM // 13:45

You still dont get the point. Its not about me losing money, i couldnt care less.

unbound00 · May 16, 2007, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdz

It is used as a currency and its still being used as a currency and it will always be used as a currency. Again, denying this is plain stupid.

Stupid is believing this won't ever change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdz

So when materials fluctuates its a bad investment? I dont think so. You buy them when they are low and sell them when they are up again.... And when they go down you just wait untill they go up again.. But this time it went down duo to another reason then just "economic" trends and im afraid it will never go up again.

So all economy should rely on just "economic" trends. Economy is a product of society and revolves around society, not the other way around.
And also, I thought the whole point was that since the storage cap for money is 1000k than players had to store a valuable item to use as currency when the cap was met (in sotrage or trades), which has nothing to do with investment. You either invest on ectos in a chance that it will turn out profit when price goes up or you store something with a set value that will correspond to money when the cap is met, you can't have both things. So if you know it as an investment you can't complain that prices went down, you knew it was subject to fluctuate as a result on just about any unforeseen circunstance, just because you wished it would go up doesn't mean it couldn't go down. If you thought it was a safe way to make up for the trade/storage cap, think again, it wasn't, and nobody told it was, nobody planned it to be, and players just assumed it would be. Don't blame Anet for you not thinking things through.

Aerian_Skybane · May 16, 2007, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdz

Since the loot scale changes the ecto price has been dropping from 11k --> 6k trader price.
I know that the price of ecto always has fluctuated and especially in the beginning. But since factions it kept a steady lvl between 8-9k, and after NF it went up to 9-11k. Now, i know ANET thinks they did a very good job with their loot scale changes but what i see is total chaos. Since the max amount of gold you can save up is 1000k (dont ask me why) you will need to invest your gold in other things. The 2 most logical choices would be either Black dyes or Ecto. Now i want to ask ANET this... you force ppl to invest in other things cause A : Max amount is 1000k in storage B : cant trade more than 100k over trade. Is it fair that you backstab ppl by changing something in the loot scale that their investments are suddenly worth shit?!? (and no im not a guy who has 50 stacks of ecto and black dye)

I think its not and the ecto price is really concerning me. I dont think it will go up anymore to the 8-9k but thats just a rough guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdz

You still dont get the point. Its not about me losing money, i couldnt care less.

Oh ok, then I guess you just like flogging yourself for the exercise then? If you didn't care about money, you wouldn't have posted this inane rant in the first place. I think you can't see a larger picture of potential, and that though it may be tough to change, there is a revolution for more stable currency place holders in the works. You are blaming Anet for economic loss. This thread wouldn't exist if you were making money off of Ectos. Instead, you are losing, and now you are blaming everyone but yourself. You mentioned earlier you understood the "stock" like currency economy of ectos. Then you really can't blame anything on anyone but yourself and the masses who dropped off their ectos at the first sign of change. Last I knew, Anet didn't ban anyone who didn't sell all their ectos with LS was released. Your initial argument is that Anet "nerfed" ectos through LS, of which you use as a stable economic filler. If you want stability, start buying and using lockpicks as money fillers. Ecto is fluctuation. Lockpicks aren't, and they have a high enough value as to not consume storage. If you want risk, go ecto, if you want stable money fillers, go something like lockpicks, or whatever. Thats the short and long of it, period. Thats the way economy works.

Also, learn to make an argument and NOT sound like you just drank off three absinthes.

This thread really should be closed because it is jut becoming VDZ contradicting himself and delving into stupid-poster world.

Krispy · May 16, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quite simply, this doesn't concern me in the least. I've got ~100 ecto, but I don't care what they're worth because I farmed them, rather than bought them. It's all profit for me if I sell them at 6k or 12k.

If anyone purchases ecto as a means to store cash above 1M gold, then they're taking the risk that they will fluctuate in price. That's the joy of investing. There's always a risk involved. Hell, IRL, cash isn't stable, neither is gold. They all fluctuate.

If anything, NOW is the time to buy ecto. As has been noted in other threads, the lowest the ecto price will go is roughly 7k at the trader, so they seem to have hit bottom. Good investors know to buy low/sell high. There's a good chance that a change will be made later that will cause the price to rise back to traditional 8-9k prices. That's good investing.

the_jos · May 16, 2007, 04:44 PM // 16:44

People that have some economy knowledge could have know this would happen sometime.
The infamous 'tulip crash' in the Netherlands is a known historical example.

People that adopt a non-standard currency always face the risk of rappid devaluation.
It's been that way with tulips, sea shells, oil and a lot of other stuff.
There are certain things that do maintain value over time, but not much.
In a controled market, you will see that prices are relatively fixed.
You can see that in the diamond market, where a few companies control the market.
Gold value is relatively stable, since real money is still (partially) backed up by it.
Then there is stuff like oil. There are some parties 'in control of the market', but there are also other influences (weather, war).
Those can be explained by economic rules.

What happened in GW is that the players set the price of ecto.
When they got too expensive, no-one would buy and more would sell, lowering the price. When they got too cheap, people would stock them up.
There was no real demand for ecto's, except as currency and (far less, I think) as crafting material.

You can compare this to the 'dot-com bubble', where stock prices were sky high, but there was no real underlying value in the companies. It was all about expectations.
When things got bad a little, this caused a chain reaction.

With the current ecto crash, you can see the same.
People realise there is value at risk in 'investing' in ectos and move to safer investments (like lockpicks, which have a fixed trader value).
This causes more supply and less demand, hence lower prices.

I think the price will remain unstable for some time, but time learns that investors have a short memory.
Prices will go up again, as long as ectos will remain a form of currency.
But remember, there is no real value in ectos, except as crafting material.
So prices can go down again.

vdz · May 16, 2007, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerian_Skybane

Oh ok, then I guess you just like flogging yourself for the exercise then? If you didn't care about money, you wouldn't have posted this inane rant in the first place. I think you can't see a larger picture of potential, and that though it may be tough to change, there is a revolution for more stable currency place holders in the works. You are blaming Anet for economic loss. This thread wouldn't exist if you were making money off of Ectos. Instead, you are losing, and now you are blaming everyone but yourself. You mentioned earlier you understood the "stock" like currency economy of ectos. Then you really can't blame anything on anyone but yourself and the masses who dropped off their ectos at the first sign of change. Last I knew, Anet didn't ban anyone who didn't sell all their ectos with LS was released. Your initial argument is that Anet "nerfed" ectos through LS, of which you use as a stable economic filler. If you want stability, start buying and using lockpicks as money fillers. Ecto is fluctuation. Lockpicks aren't, and they have a high enough value as to not consume storage. If you want risk, go ecto, if you want stable money fillers, go something like lockpicks, or whatever. Thats the short and long of it, period. Thats the way economy works.

Also, learn to make an argument and NOT sound like you just drank off three absinthes.

This thread really should be closed because it is jut becoming VDZ contradicting himself and delving into stupid-poster world.

Stop pretending you know all the ins and outs, you're just assuming.

Dougal Kronik · May 16, 2007, 05:19 PM // 17:19

I couldn't care less if ectos went down to 100g.

I sold the only 4 I've ever had, they were given to me, to get some gold to buy Cap sigs.

Change the player economy to trade in items that have a value that won't change based on supply and demand.

savage vapor 33 · May 16, 2007, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

I couldn't care less if ectos went down to 100g.

I sold the only 4 I've ever had, they were given to me, to get some gold to buy Cap sigs.

Change the player economy to trade in items that have a value that won't change based on supply and demand.

Which is exactly the reason why we need to move to Lockpicks being our new age ectos.

applejacks · May 16, 2007, 05:52 PM // 17:52

My first instinct is to say: yay price drop, since I am an unlucky player drop-wise. However those rare times I do get a good drop, I would enjoy selling it for a good amount. The first time I got a sup vig rune, I was elated, an easy 30k for my coffers. The second time it was sold at 16k. Still good, but in the end not the best. Same with the one black dye I ever found.

But I do kinda agree with your post. Some things I like to work for, it makes it more satisfying in the end. Same with drops. Even if good drops are rare for me, when I do get them, it is very satisfying.

As for ectos, I understand people use it as a way to save up money, given the max money you can have stored. However, you are in a way playing the market and in this way, nothing is guaranteed. You took a chance because the market was stable at the time. Now it is not. Perhaps with GWEN it will re-stabalise.

Chop it Off · May 16, 2007, 05:53 PM // 17:53

if my memory serves me correct, material trader prices fluctuate with supply and demand, correct?

so if prices are low, it means more ectos are coming in, then being sold.

probably due to excessive farming.

i say excessive farming for one reason.
nightfall has been out long enough for people to of gotten all their characters thru all the campaigns.
being bored with nothing to do, the non-pvper's go farming. best place to farm is underworld and fow.

so the only people to blame for ectos dropping in price is the farmers.

loot scaling has nothing to do with it, imho, because drops are still the same down there. hard or normal mode. atleast for me.

i haven't noticed any significant increase if drops since hard mode.

Yichi · May 16, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealthc

So wait for them to go up again, if they don't go up again, well you made a bad investment then didn't you.

This thread should be closed as it is nothing more than a whiny rant because someone is no longer 200k richer.

200k richer??? there are people in this game that have lost millions due to this economy fluctuation simply because up until HM was introduced, we had no steady items we could use for currency besides ecto.... that would produce over 300g to the merchant and DIDN'T cut their wealth in half (i.e. if they bought ales or keys or whatnot.)

One stack of ecto @ 7k is 1.75 million in GW money.. this was as of 3 days ago. Today one stack of ecto @ 5.5k is 1.375k. There are people in this game that have stacks of ecto.... so yes if you had millions invested into say a stock or a money market account and suddenly lost 21.5% of your investment, youd be asking questions too.

Gun Pierson · May 16, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

We've had some nice theories and opinions so far, but nobody mentioned Anet. They control most of the market imo. They introduced loot scaling because too much new gold was braught in. They could aswell let ecto prices drop over a month or so, so everybody thinks it's supply and demand amongst players.